[liamedleston]

Ryan,

John is the state Measurer for Victoria.

Phone Number is 9729 1188

Email: [email protected]

Cheers

[liamedleston]

I’ve found no problem with using 4 bolts to secure the venturi. You put these in from the outside of the hull, with the nut on the inside. With 5mm ply, there is enough thickness to have all the head of the bolt sunk into the ply, and to then cover it with a sliver of filler to get a flush finish. But you also then have the silicone giving extra grip to keep it attached. The venturi hasn’t moved/leaked at all – despite the inevitable occasional ‘collision’ with the dolley when retrieving the boat !

[liamedleston]

Peter,
There seems to be 2 addresses in the White pages.
Steve Walker Sails
5a Moore St
Wynard, Tas, 7325
+613 6442 3641

6-8 Tamar Rd
Launceston, Tas, 7250
Only a mobile number – +61 407 906 216

[liamedleston]

Assuming you have rope in the luff instead of shockcord, then the problem is probably the fact that rope is being used. A contributing factor is usually vang tension. Experiment with first letting off the vang before easing the downhaul. Once the luff has eased up pull on the vang again.
Barry Eastgate

[liamedleston]

You should reconfirm with John but if you look at the “Boats and Equipment” section of this website you will see John’s prices under IECON Boats. $3,860 unvarnished deck and fully fitted POA
Barry Eastgate

[liamedleston]

The decision on appointment of the new Vic builder will be taken at the 22 Mar committee meeting. FYI, Vic Measurer, John Dixon is currently building 3 or 4 boats out of the Assocn mould and will have timber decks.
It is expected that the new builder will take posession of the mould by 1 May.
Barry Eastgate

[liamedleston]

I use either plastibond or even aruldite. Overfill and then just sand back and polish.
Barry E

[liamedleston]

My understanding is that the requirement for 4 battens (excluding) keel was introduced about 1988/90. 671 would certainly pre-date the rule change. Phil Johnson or John Dixon should comment on this but I think the requirement for the floor battens to pass through the bulkhead was also introduced with the requirement for 4 battens.
Barry Eastgate

[liamedleston]

The John Seeber Memorial Teams race results and comments are on the Vic website

Barry Eastgate

[liamedleston]

The so called Sabre book is not an official Sabre Association publication even though all the information is verbatim from the official “Rattle” newsletters from the 1970s and 80’s. The author, John Snellgrove is a past Vic Measurer. The book was published about 1997.

John is no longer a member of the association but I believe he is still at the address we have on file.

Try contacting John on 03 5986 1017

Barry Eastgate

[liamedleston]

The Sabre Class first issued measurement certificates in 1975. The guiding thought at that time was a boat that had the following features:-

. Easily built by an inexperienced home builder
. Low cost
. Simple design
. Suitable for inexperienced sailors but equally interesting for experienced sailors

The above criteria were met by using construction techniques and design features then in use by the Mirror Class.
The result was a lightly constructed boat, broad in beam and slightly under canvassed. Since then nearly 1700 boats have been built. The majority of these boats are home made. The Sabre is the cheapest boat for an adult to sail in Australia. The class is now active in 5 states with an existing boat and 1 building in WA.
The development of the class was aided by the production of comprehensive buiding notes and class owned templates for the plywood panels.

The class was never intended to be a “hot” racing boat or development boat. To this end very few alterations to the original design have been made. The measurement rules were comprehensive in order to keep the one design concept safe. The rules only allow what is written in them. The result has been fleets of boats that include boats of widely differing ages with many older boats being competitive.
This has made access into Sabre Sailing very easy for people of limited means and kept many boats and people active in the Class for long periods. It has also resulted in older boats maintaining their value.

The original boats were entirely constructed from timber but eventually fibreglass boats were allowed and a specification for a totally fibreglass and a fibreglass hull/timber deck was introduced.
Recently the rules were changed to allow fibre glass sheathing to the bottom panels to enable 4mm plywwood to be used in lieu of 5mm plywood which has become extremely difficult to obtain.

The class rules require that any changes to the rules be by a vote of all the state associations. This has meant that decisions that make changes get a thorough airing with the members first.

Although the above appears to show that the Class is conservative in its approach to maintaining the design integity of the boat, in fact when decisions have had to made because of circumstances this does happen but only after full consultation. The class has always rejected changes that in essence are only trends with no particular advantage to the class or changes which makes boats or particular items of equipment obsolete.

The sailing philosophy of the Sabre Class is that winning is done on the water between people who are friends of it. To this end all that is needed is for all the boats to be the same or as close as is practical and let personal skill be the determining factor in the racing.

Phillip Johnson
National Measurer

[liamedleston]

This discussion is causing a degree of concern to both national and state committee members.
There is concern that there appears to be an assumption that the Sabre is a ‘development’ class. This is NOT the case.

The National Measurer has been made aware of the issues raised on the discussion forum and will respond in the next few days…he is currently tied up workwise so I am responding in my capacity as Vic Treasurer, past Vic and past National President, and more importantly, a class member for 15 years.

The Sabre has existed for 31 years by strictly controlling building regulations with tolerances established for amateur construction.
This has resulted in one of the cheapest boats of its size around today and protects investment in boats already in existence…there are still 20 year old boats in the top 15 nationally. The best sailor wins, not the boat built using the latest technology.

Having said that, the class has always been sensitive to developments and regularly reviews construction methods and rules and with consultation between state associations instigates changes through constitutional means.

The Sabre is almost unique today in that it is one of the few classes not controlled by one manufacturer / distributor.

A requirement for competing in class events (and therefore YA events) is that a boat must hold a current ‘A’ class certficate. This fact is often not emphasised enough when people buy/sell boats. An ‘A’ class certificate is only issued if measured and passed by a State measurer and ratified by the National measurer. The rules are very specific…most key measurements are available on this website.

Answers to specific questions (where I can)
Timber hulls can be sheaved in fibreglass inside and outside for added strenghth

Timber hull thickness has a min thickness but not a maximum.
FRP hulls “shall be entirely of sandwich construction comprising a) an outer laminate of no less than 300gm chopped strand mat, b) a core of 1mm firet coremat and / or vermiculate Qcell, c) an inner laminate of 300gm chopped strand mat and / or 8oz woven roving.”
The use of other than ‘E’ glass reinforcement and polyester resins is specifically prohibited. All mouldings may have a polyester gel-coat finish.

Removal of floor battens is illegal in timber boats but are not required for FRP boats but it is recommended that stiffeners be used instead.

The building notes/regulations cover timber boats, FRP and plywood/frp composites. The latter refers to an FRP hull with timber decks, in which case floor battens may be removed. Timber hulls must have timber floor battens.

The class considers change of construction techniques detrimental if it would result in existing boats being disadvantaged (strength, weight, performance). The comment has been made that even if there was not a performance advantage but there was a perception of advantage then this might be grounds for non acceptance.

Over the past 6 years or so the National and State measurers have instigated many changes to rules – getting rid of ones no longer appropriate and tightening others and this will no doubt continue…but always based on considerations mentioned above.

Page 6 of the Sabre Construction and Fitting Out Notes refers to the “Sabre Concept”

” The Sabre sailing dinghy is of simple design and construction, relatively simple and inexpensive to build; a one-design class to ensure all boats are similar in construction and performance potential. The one-design concept specifies materials, methods of construction, dimensions and fittings. It provides some latitude to allow for amateur construction and the availability of materials and fittings. However, the finished boat has to be within the limit of tolerances allowed. In addition, the boat has to appear to be within the limit of tolerances which apply to similar parts of the boat. e.g. the hull shape is only checked at specified stations but between those stations it must also be within the tolerances laid down. In addition all parts of the boat have to look like a boat constructed strictly in accordance with these notes.

The FRP Sabre emulates, as near as possible, the construction shape, characteristics and performance of the plywood boat, but makes allowance for the necessity to vary some internal characteristics to meet the requirements of the construction material.

All new/replacement equipment must comply with the Rules of Measurement and Construction at the time of installation or replacement.

No variations outside the Building Notes and Measurement Rules are permitted unless approved in writing by the Sabre Sailing Association of Australia Inc

Inherent in the class concept and Rules is that a dinghy cannot be deemed a SABRE dinghy unless constructed in accordance with the construction notes, complies with the Rules of Measurement, has been officially measured, and bears the appropriate measurement certificate of the Association. Failure to comply with the measurement requirement also renders a boat inelligible to race under AYF Rules.

WARNING – Only items specified in these construction notes shall be included either in construction or fitting out of a Sabre”

The person who built the illegal Tas Sabre has been in the class for a long time…ignorance of long standing rules and understanding what the class is about would therefore appear not to be an excuse for circumventing the rules without consultation.

In summary, the Sabre is NOT a DEVELOPMENT class and a key reason why we are about to crack 1700 boats is the longevity of competive boats built to reasonable rules for the amateur and professional bulder. However, we are not averse to change when it benefits evryone.
If you want to sail in a development class, then the Sabre is not for you, but if you want to enjoy a friendly competive boat in large numbers while retaining investment value, then the Sabre is good chaice for all ages.

Barry Eastgate
1611

[liamedleston]

Shane,
Most of the top boats have their mast step near the aft most position within the tolerance. The measurements are taken from the transom (outer edge) to the mast step range. I suggest you position it approx 2 – 3 cm forward of the aft limit…check the rules as to what constitutes the measurement point. It used to be the middle of the mast but I think this has changed.

To my knowledge, the rules do not allow for a moveable maststep but you should check with the National Measurer, Phil Johnson 03 9557 8677 [email protected].

Barry Eastgate

[liamedleston]

Andy, I wasn’t part of the discussions at the States but I think this is a great idea.
It will certainly be on the agenda at next months Vic committee meeting.
Barry E

[liamedleston]

Ryan,
Vic boats are not going by container…we can’t get any special deals and it cost prohibitive.
Vic boats are going by Spirit Melb-Devenport which leaves either 9am and arrives 7pm or leaves 9pm and arrives 7am.
It is a 3 hr drive from Devenport to Hobart.
The cheapest way is to go during the day and just book a cruise seat or business class seat (about $13 diff in price).
It will be far cheaper and quicker if you drive to Melb rather than depart from Syd. There is a significant cost penalty if you take a trailor.
Most people put the boat upside down on roof racks…beach dolly on top of the boat (perhaps without wheels). There is a max height of 2.4 metres and you need to specify avehicle length of 6 metres to allow for the mast.
Apparently they are now strictly administering length. If booking online just select standard car but check the “with bike rack or bull bar” and it will change the length to 6 metres.
The cost with this configuration is $96 one way instead of the normal $55.
The cost business class seat, 6m car for 1 person one way is $233.
If you go at night and want a cabin (1,2 bed) you can add approx $200.
I would not leave booking too late.

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