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Having grown up in that area its a beautiful part of the world.
Would be a lovely spot for a NSW nationals.
Any chance?
Ashley
are we to assume your Impulses were from Jim as well so youre probably well looked after and supported by FS. Are you the cool looking dude with 20kgs of dreadlocks on top of your head as you massively body pump past us all on the reaches. I’ve never seen someone fit enough to pump that much. is that how you hurt your back? you could always just sail the way the rest of us do??
the rule is saying must try to be equal as nearly as possible the construction shape and performance
characteristics of a fully complying plywood boat
any race rules committee would just pass it back to the class committee they made there decision
bret i think you are flogging a dead horse
disleksia is not a bad thing you don’t get a page of waffle from me
the committee thinks some people here should suddenly get
disleksiaCraig the FS plug was made by Phil Johnson.
Phil was the national measurer for a decade and a half and the plug was built via the standard Sabre process. He has made a large number of very fast ply boats historically and was the perfect choice to make a plug.
While I respect people can have an opinion, this is now the 4th/5th forum topic on the same subject. It is clear not everyone is going to agree on this one.
Perhaps it is time to either make a recommendation to your local Sabre committee for consideraton or alternatively move on.
Ashley
Oh dear GuestMember twin. Perhaps a liberal sprinkling of punctuation and correct spelling would assist your cause. As it is, you come across as uneducated and frankly a bit of a pompous bore with an axe to grind and delusions of grandeur.
Can some one please reference for me where fiberglass moulds have to be built from a ply boat. As far as I am aware this practice is due to convenience rather than a Sabre rule.
Are we also saying that a plug can not be altered once it has been generated from a ply boat. If I measure 1610 (Waynes original ply boat) and compare it to the current YMS mould, as well as a sample of boats over the last 15 years will they all be the same?
Having bought one of the original FS boats, i now it was built off a ply plug made by Phil Johnson. No it was not a full Sabre but then given its purpose was to build a mould, why invest time and money in a full fit out boat.
Any minor tweaks in the FS mould still need to be inside the rules and would be no different from a little bog/filler here and there if being applied to an existing wooden or glass boat. I always find new and improved is 98% marketing and 2% fact so not particularly worried about tiny amendments to the FS mould.
I’m also really curious about the points of this and similar threads.
Recent rules by the association followed the standard by laws of the class, including advising builders at the time of the changes. In my review the rule changes were more a clean up than a department from the norm. What exactly do people expect for an outcome.
If members really have an issue, raise your concerns formally to your local Sabre representative to take to the wider body. This seems a more formal and responsible approach to make change. Everyone has an opinion but can we focus on using it in a constructive manner.
The people on the Sabre committees do so to support the class and make things better for all. Knowing a large number of them personally they give up there time because they passionately believe in the class and ensuring its longevity.
I would hate to see our class no longer supported by people volunteering due to continual negative feedback. Feel free to raise concerns but I personally believe that a lot more effective methods exist than the internet.
Ashley Parkinson
Cookie Monster 1886two weeks ago both nick and harold measured the FS plug
nick has a full version of rino it has a plywood bending component in it
it measure and conformed to the program
FS is your opposition this forum should not use this way?
What you are suggesting is a bit like whats mine is yours and yours is your own.
My advice to you is to stop going on about others and get
on and build your boats
This link should be put to bedi am not who you think
i think this is a storm in a tea cup
most of the measurments are +5 or -5 mm the bow area has the mtr rule
craig what you are pushing would make the xp and new yms moulds not be legal
because they have come of foam and glass plugs
from i what hear the new FS is more like the YMS
the sabre has rules on what materials owner builders can useWell, well
After reading all these posts, it seams very clear to me that the Sabre Association needs to put a stop to proposed rule change that will allow all these new boats and fast. Before the class suffers any further and might I say, being an owner of a FS boat I for one will not be very happy at all if my vast investment in the Sabre class drops because of this class allow a newer design.
Therefor I ask that those who are currently pushing this change wheelbarrow, that it is time to look again at this issue and realize that they have it wrong and it needs to be corrected before it gets any further down the track.
I know people who are currently being prevented from joining or upgrading into the class, as they have no idea of which boat to buy and who will be next to build the faster boat. The class can not keep going like this any longer, so it is time gentlemen to put a stop to it and fast.
theyre not all me. I did just the rule changes are invalid one but I think there are about 62 members as “guestmember” so to other guestmembers just realise that your private messages aren’t so private as other “guestmembers” can. After seeing the biased reporting of these rule changes and people being “cut down” by members who make the make the decisions for this class and who I have to drink with each weekend in the bar, I have sadly taken my tag off but I didn’t really use the forum much.
Sounds like more members should?! looks like a bit of a mess at the moment but I’m sure sensible heads will prevail.
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Hi Aten,
Im glad somebody else thinks the way the new changes have tried to be introduced is invalid.
I totally believe this is true. I’ve retired into Sabres from other much higher stress and agro type Int classes like 420 and 505 etc. They both had rule changes ruled out as invalid…….and it makes sense why…..
Lets say you have 40 new rule submissions to be voted on and if you vote on them all as one block ( i.e. all of the new rules or none) then all the voting members know exactly what theyre getting.
in the case of voting on each change individually, if any one submission doesnt get voted in, then because all rules may effect other rules in a knock on effect, then the intent of the earlier submissions that were successfully voted in now have a potentially different outcome to what people thought they were voting on……..so the whole complete vote must start again……e.g. you vote for transom scuppers to be allowed and it gets in but then later on the vote on being allowed to open them while racing doesn’t get through (current rules don’t allow drain plugs to be opened while sailing and these are just a larger drain…..and always leaked on my 420 and 505)……well….that would leave you thinking that there was no point to vote scuppers in then as you cant use them anyway so youd rather go back and re vote as the intent and usage is now totally different.
all those rule changes would need to be voted on as a block or cant be included I believe.
cheers
Slow Hand wrote:May I comment from a timber boat perspective ….. a timber boat, as part of or after construction can be modified with the use of bog, fibreglass etc to maximise or minimise measurements within the tolerances. A beginning amateur may not have this skill, but an experienced craftsman can do so. Hence, I don’t accept the logic that a fibreglass boat should be built to the middle of tolerances since whatever can be done within the tolerances with FRP can also be achieved with timber boats.Hi Slow Hand,
Which edition of the Sabre rules did you get the above line from? Is there a newer set than the August 2011 ones I have? My set doesn’t say anything about allowing bogging and changing the shape of plywood Sabre. This set of rules says “shall be constructed of marine or waterproof type plywood”. The word “shall” makes the statement mandatory…..and as the statement doesn’t say “shall be constructed from plywood AND bog” the original rule mandates that ONLY plywood is allowed……….and Bog disallowed by its initial omission.
Hmmm………is your Plywood boat reshaped with bog?
And HelterSkelter and Jack….I totally agree that its bizarre that more noise hasn’t been made about this and I totally agree and hope other members do as well , that boats from this clearly “manipulated’ fibreglass mould should never get an “A” certificate and I have also had sailing friends turn away from joining as no one wants to risk losing big bucks that easily. has anyone actually beaten a yms boat for a National title at all? Mark , even with your rose coloured glasses on…..I’m pretty sure no one has? and didn’t that mould come from Batesy’s plywood boat? so why hasn’t anyone ben able to beat it. I know the 10 year old YMS Sharpies still keep winning Nationals. why doesn’t everyone just get a hull mould taken of Batesy’s Sabre as well (or from yms) and then….what do they call It????….oh yer…..that’s right….that would make all the hulls the same…..and I think they call that “ONE DESIGN”. isn’t that what the Sabre is supposed to be? cant we get that sorted before more of my friends sail other boats instead? the Impulse class will keep growing but I think Jim builds them as well
hey….has anyone actually heard anything from the measurers thing back in April? Did I miss that posting?it seems its a done deal that the ssaa is going to allow that new fs shape. if, as just lowly members, we think it doesn’t measure or it breaks the Sabre rules we can put a protest in at any regatta or race or something cant we?..or at every regatta…every time it sails. lets face it….if it hasn’t come off a plywood Sabre its never going to be seen as a true Sabre and surely that stigma is going to hang in air like the smell of yachties dead wetsuit…………….. how hard is it to fill out a protest form anyway? im goin to pre do a stack I reckon.
Mr. Graham….just saw your commentary and felt a few facts need to be corrected.
YMS only built a new mould and shape as the ssav funded a new Botterril built mould from your wooden boat at that time I believe? and wasn’t this blatantly contravening the class rules of the time as back then all frp boats were built from the one shape. I heard when Youngi complained to the National committee they got back to him in less than a week with the decision that they would allow it……and while the “messenger” was still on the phone explaining the decision Youngi got his diamond wheel and cut his moulds up in disgust while on the phone still.
Im inquisitive about the fact that normally the voting process for recent rule changes seems to take for ever. if a major rule like that was changed in less than a week, is that actually constitutionally legal and was youngi hard done by?You said the FS moulds measured as a strip of ply was laid over it ?>?? as I read things, a full panel of the right thickness ply would have to be laid over the section concerned …..not just a strip…..and how the hell can you tell if the plywood is actually touching the whole time if you cant see through the plywood??? you guys must be magicians or something. I cant see any way that you can check that the frp panel and the full ply panel are in contact at all??? sound s like propaganda to me.
why didn’t Jim just build from a ply plug or boat like all the other moulds have been? that way way we all know it is all the same as a ply boat…….instead of taking the word of some magicians tht can see through plywood and say “hey, trust me . it truly touches everywhere…..and you only used a strip anyway….. iI’m guessing youre not a tradesman in any way Andrew…………..
and Mark, I wish I had your blind faith. Do you truly believe your boat hasn’t dropped in value by at least 3k after Jim put on the web that his new design was clearly going to be faster after manipulating the shape. I heard it was done with bog and wasn’t a timber panel? that cant be right ? that means its ok for everyone to change their Sabre shape with bog……cool…..im off to change my Sabre like Jim has,,,,,Mr. Graham….just saw your commentary and felt a few facts need to be corrected.
YMS only built a new mould and shape as the ssav funded a new Botterril built mould from your wooden boat at that time I believe? and wasn’t this blatantly contravening the class rules of the time as back then all frp boats were built from the one shape. I heard when Youngi complained to the National committee they got back to him in less than a week with the decision that they would allow it……and while the “messenger” was still on the phone explaining the decision Youngi got his diamond wheel and cut his moulds up in disgust while on the phone still.
Im inquisitive about the fact that normally the voting process for recent rule changes seems to take for ever. if a major rule like that was changed in less than a week, is that actually constitutionally legal and was youngi hard done by?You said the FS moulds measured as a strip of ply was laid over it ?>?? as I read things, a full panel of the right thickness ply would have to be laid over the section concerned …..not just a strip…..and how the hell can you tell if the plywood is actually touching the whole time if you cant see through the plywood??? you guys must be magicians or something. I cant see any way that you can check that the frp panel and the full ply panel are in contact at all??? sound s like propaganda to me.
why didn’t Jim just build from a ply plug or boat like all the other moulds have been? that way way we all know it is all the same as a ply boat…….instead of taking the word of some magicians tht can see through plywood and say “hey, trust me . it truly touches everywhere…..and you only used a strip anyway….. iI’m guessing youre not a tradesman in any way Andrew…………..
and Mark, I wish I had your blind faith. Do you truly believe your boat hasn’t dropped in value by at least 3k after Jim put on the web that his new design was clearly going to be faster after manipulating the shape. I heard it was done with bog and wasn’t a timber panel? that cant be right ? that means its ok for everyone to change their Sabre shape with bog……cool…..im off to change my Sabre like Jim has,,,,,
