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As a newcomer to the class some of the fittings do seem rather antiquated.
As a comment i think changes should be allowed when they contribute to simplicity and accessability for home builders without changing performance potential.
These days most dinghies rig their booms with rope or webbing loops for blocks and clew. These aren’t faster but rather smarter,cheaper, stronger and reduce corrosion problems along with longevity of the boom.
As stainless hangers are around $8 each it seems odd not to allow a loop of rope which costs 50c and does a better job.The total weight of uncut plywood ie 5 sheets is about 56 to60 lbs. This is based on 3 sheets of 4mm and 2 sheets of 5mm. The plywood is gaboon.
At the present time it is very difficult if not impossible to get 5mm. It is permitted to use 4mm for the bootom panels and bring the thickness to 4.5mm using fibreglass on one or both sides. This does not increase the weight very much and the finished boat should be very close to the minimum weight. Care needs to taken to remove excess resin when doing the fibreglass sheathing.Phillip Johnson
National MeasurerDoes anyone know what the combined weight of the five sheets of ply needs to weigh in at and what is added after hull construction.
Thank you for the reply on the glass boats, I was just curious knowing a littel about the boat 855 and having ownnd 854 in the mid 80s.
Great web site obviesly a lot of hard work and a lot of time spent to make it interesting and informative A job well done
Not really sure what the problem is in regards to some of the above issues.
The towel rail fitting allows the sail to be attached to the end of the boom with a simple click and pull mechanism. This is easy and convenient system however a little more expensive as it is a one piece fitting designed to slide easy when the outhaul rope is pulled.
My boat operates via two simple shackles which serves the same purpose.
One to hold the sail to the boom and the second to allow the outhaul to work.Total cost $6. I always thought that the towel rail fitting, be it the new version or the old two shackle systems was a personal choice.Why exactly would you want to remove floor batterns anyway. During a tack there have been countless times the batterns have provide a good place to push off the floor and added grip when really required,especially during a strong breeze.
I undersatnd that rough tape can be used on the floor instead but that has 2 problems – 1) it is not raised like a floor battern and as such does not provide as much push off 2) the tape has a nasty habit of putting holes in wetsuits or knees if scraped a lot such as a beginner may do if spending a lot of time kneeling on the floor or tacking awkwardly.
No doubt the floor battenrs would have been incorporated into the fiberglass hull design, however this seems it was not possible during the transfer between technologies of wood to full fiberglass.
Why would foam and fiberglassing a boats floor be any easier than putting batterns in. Wouldn’t the foam and fiberglass add more cost to the boat compared to the cost to install batterns and if this is the case why would the governing body want to add the new construction method.
The idea is to keep the design simple for the home build at the least cost.Some people seem on occasions to be very critical of the committee and measurers in the above messages. Not so much in the what has been said on occasions but in the way the views have been expressed. Last time I checked the people on the commitee and measurers etc do the job for free and to give a little back to the community.
If a person was trying to introduce a new method of construction into the sailing group , I would hav thought discussing it and getting the go ahead would have been the way to proceed before building the boat.
Wouldn’t doing some research such as showing the time and cost savings be a better way of going about it to prove the case for a new possible system. A’ll I have seen to date is the argument that the class is not moving with the times. Given the objective of the sabre federation in keeping the playing field fair and costs down, I think they have every right to stick by their views.
Ashley
Tepara 1061The two recent replys have identified all the things that make the Sabre the class it is, ie. the class that has produced some of the most complete and accomplished sailors in Aust. I have no doubt that a Wayne Bates could win in a 20+ year old boat, the winning should be done on the water.
I dont get the impression that there is a push to turn the Sabre into a development class, but on the other hand the fierce guarding of the “construction notes” have produced an outcome detrimental to the class. The towel rail outhaul fitting is now a custom made fitting, I dont see this sits in with the intent of the class, no one wants an A Class cat, but just as strongly, neither should the class want a Laser.
The difference seems to be in the construction notes “if it is not in the construction notes its illegal”. All other one design class’ (that I know of) have VERY strict class rule, but stop short of telling you how you must comply with those class rules. Once you start telling people how they must do something you take away their ability utilise their particular strengths
This debate should not concern the National Class executive, you have been voted into your respective positions with the primary objective to safeguard the class as a whole and I would expect that this be done with vigour (the best things are worth protecting).
I hope this debate (beyond the illegal boat) gets the appropriate airing in the appropriate forum, this will ensure the best outcome. I hope the class exec is secure enough in themselves to discuss this and not trot out the “if you dont like it go sail something else”, that would be the worst possible outcome for the class.
I would like to hear from the national measurer (or state) as to the technical reason for this boat being illegal.
I guess the questions I have are:
– is sheaving the floor of the boat illegal?
– is there a max thickness on the floor?
– is the removal of the batterns illegal?
– would it be legal to have a wooden boat with the batterns made from foam?
– is it just a “vibe” thing (like the movie The Castle, not specifically illegal but…)
– does the class see this type of thing (changing construction techniques) as being deterimental to the class, if so, why
– what was the process for allowing foam composite boats, assumably they where not foreseen and written into building notes when the building notes (or were they?)I would be interested in a formal reply from the class association (specifically the measurer) on this boat/issue[/list]
Thank you both for your informative replies. My email address is [email protected]
Floriana
if you have a email address i have a few photos that i can send from adelaide boats that i took to set my boat up.
Regards
Ron Fry
CRISPY 1201Most people (myself included) seem happy with the 4:1 purchase between mast and boom with a 2:1 (or slightly less due to angle-of-pull) twin-ended control line out to cleats just in front of the bulkhead. Have a wander around the rigging area and see how others have their controls rigged – most will be happy to talk to you about how good their systems are.
In spite of having expensive cam cleats on my No.1 boat, I do favour the ClamCleat Alloy Junior Mk 2 as being more reliable, cheaper (about 60% less than cam cleats) and incorporating its own fairlead.
Most people seem to favour low stretch (Kevlar and the like) control lines, but, providing you don’t use 3mm nylon blind cord, 6mm polyester should do: it has always worked fine for me – after all, you can always pull it on a bit, and you’ll save 50%!
WARNING: Take care when mounting the cleats on the deck that (a) you mount them with bolts not self tappers; and (b) you ensure that there is a reinforcing pad under the deck and use generously sized washers.
Mike 1682
I think debate is a healthy thing which will lead to the class development etc.
The state/national measurers and committee probably are reading the debates with interest to hear what the wider sailing community has to say.
Not being an expert or anything , but I think changing the construction rules has to be raised at the next national meeting (Tasmania?) , and voted on or something similar , as construction is probably part of the class constitution.
Additionally changing construction would mean a new set of construction notes to go along with the process to support both straight wooden boat construction as well as the new/modified process, so if any body is happy to put their hand up to volunteer to do this , I guess this is the forum to do so.
Regardless discussion is always a healthy thing and the more comment made on the proposed changes the better.
There seems to a distinct lack of comment from the class office bearers and national measurer re. this “debate”.
Do I take it that the class is not interested in “evolution” as it was put forward. I have children that will be moving from Sabots in the next year or two and will be interested in watching this debate evolve prior to purchasing multiple boats (allbeit second hand).
A well developed argument both for and against will determine the best outcome either way.
The current mould used by Botterill is owned by the Victorian Sabre Sailing Association. This mould was taken from a boat built by John Hawkins.
Having read some other areas of this forum, it strikes me that this is already happening. People are glassing over the ply to increase the strength of the bottom panels.
Why does the inclusion of some foam into the laminate then make it illegal?
Having just finished building a Sabre I think the above comment is very valid. Anything that makes the Sabre easier/cheaper to build and repair without providing any competative advantage should be considered.
I have a friend who sails an Impulse and advisedly they have amended their rules to accommodate this style of construction for the floor. It is particularly relevant for older boats that might require floor stiffening.
Congratulations on raising this debate.
