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Sarah
You can change the boat name without telling anyone
The boat number, as inscribed on the hull (on the rear end of the keel cover for a timber boat or on the mast bulkhead – visible through one of the centrecase bulkhead hatches for a FRP hull) is the principal identification of a Sabre, This number may not be changed or carried over to another hull.
To join your State Association go to the relevant state page on the website and get the State Secretary’s number or address.
Mike Simpson
The Riley fitting is quite dissimilar to the Goldspar and therefore it is unlikely the rivet configuration will match.
Try ringing John Dixon (Iecon) on 03 9729 1188 – he may even have a matching fitting.
MRS
Maximum is 4. Minimum is 3
Rule 5.1
Inspection Hatches & Drain Plugs
a. One inspection hatch must be fitted in each buoyancy tank.
b. Side inspection hatches to be fitted midway between the centrecase bulkhead & the thwart.
c. Watertight drain plugs may be fitted to any cockpit panel, including the transom, provided all buoyancy tanks remain sealed and drain plugs in place whilst sailing.
d. Two hatches may be fitted to the forward tank to aid construction.I believe Goldspar still make a gooseneck but to a slightly different pattern to that previously recommended, but it runs out of arc travel such that the aft end of the boom will not drop onto the cockpit floor when the sail is lowered, resulting in a heavy moment on the gooseneck fitting.
The new fitting is probably OK as long as you pull the boom off the gooseneck before lowering the sail.
Alternative is the Riley RM680, but check the black band measurement after fitting as it will vary slightly.
I think John Dixon (Iecon) has both types available.
I would suggest there is very little between the various types of boat.
Up until a few years ago timber boats held sway but foam sandwich boats have stepped up into the top twenty.
Whether this is because of improvement in the boats or the effect of the nuts on the end of the tillers can be argued – I think it is the latter. A lot of top skippers have gone to, particularly, the YMS foam sandwich hulls from SA.
The difficulty in getting good ply to build minimum weight hulls may have been responsible for some of this exodus. There are few good timber builders about now and I know one at least who will not take orders due to the ply problems.
Thanks for the “heads-up” – I had missed it altogether!
I have enquired about this matter with Yachting Victoria and they have been doing extensive consultation and investigation into the ramifications for sailors, and will present a substantial submission to MSV.
For members’ information the YV response will likely be posted on their web site next week after closing of comment on 21 Sep. next.
Sabres are generally covered under ISAF Category A advertising by reference in sailing instructions.
This category is quite restrictive and does not allow much advertising to be carried.
Sail numbers and logos must conform to the rules (see below).
8. SAIL
8.1 General
a. The sail shall be made from woven polyester sailcloth material with a minimum weight of 130 grams per square metre and constructed in accordance with these rules. The sail shall be generally white with a red panel at the top as detailed in Rule 8.2(a).
b. The class insignia shall be red and conform to the design approved by the SSAA. It shall be positioned back to back on both sides of the sail, below the colour panel, and in the middle of the area bounded by the luff, leech and both full-length battens.
c. Sail numbers shall be red, comply with ISAF Rules, (i.e. sans serif upright Arabic font, minimum size 300mm high x 200mm wide (except for the figure 1) x 40mm thick) and be fixed on both sides of the sail and vertically offset so that the upper numbers are on the starboard side. Numbers that have identical reverse images may be fixed back to back. Numbers shall be positioned below the insignia, in the middle of the area bounded by the luff, leech and lower full batten and upper short batten.
d. Measurements shall be taken with the sail in a dry state, spread on a flat surface and under sufficient tension to remove wrinkles along the lines being measured. Sails must not exceed the maximum dimensions whether new or used.
e. Bolt ropes may be elasticised and shall be included in dimensions [other than at the sail peak – see Rule 8.2(d)] or measurement lines and, where corner points have been trimmed, measurements shall be taken from the intersection of the continuation of the two edges.
f. The measurer shall identify with waterproof ink each sail that conforms to the rules.
8.2 Details
a. The colour panel shall fill all of the area above the top of the upper batten and the foot of the colour panel shall be parallel to the top batten.
b. The sail shall have four batten pockets equally spaced (subject to the tolerance specified) along the line of leech measurement. Battens shall be parallel to each other and square to the line of the leech measurement (See Rule 8.2(e) below). The upper two batten pockets shall extend to the luff and the lower two shall be for leech battens not more than 610mm long.
c. Deleted – Replaced by Rule 8.2 (h)
d. The upper edge of the headboard shall be finished perpendicular to the luff and of length no greater than 102mm measured at right angles to the mast from aft edge of boltrope to the furthermost point of hard material.
e. The leech measurement shall be taken in a straight line from the peak corner (at the luff) to the clew corner.
f. The half height point on the leech shall be determined by folding the peak corner (at the luff) to the clew corner then smoothing the fold thus formed. The three-quarter height point on the leech shall be determined by further folding the peak corner to the half-height point and smoothing out the fold thus formed. Girth measurements shall be taken at the half and three-quarter heights by striking an arc from the leech measurement point determined as above, to the nearest point of the luff (over the bolt rope).
g. A window of 774 square centimetres maximum area may be fitted to the sail. Additional telltale windows may be fitted. Window positions are optional but no window may be located closer than 150mm to any edge of the sail.
h. The leech of the sail shall lie inside a fair curve formed by a uniform 20mm square wooden batten bent through the following measurement points;
· Aft edge of the headboard
· Three-quarter height measurement point
· Half height measurement point
· Clew8.3 Sail Measurements
Reference: ISAF/YA Rule Book for definitions
Luff: between black bands (on mast) 4673 mm max.
Foot: black band from aft edge of full mast section 1981 mm max.
Leech: straight line from head to clew 5029 mm max.
Head to centre of foot of sail 4927 mm max.
Three quarter girth incl. bolt rope 815 mm. Max.
Half girth incl. boltrope 1410 mm max.
Headboard, outstand at top of sail measured at right angles to mast 102mm max. from aft edge of bolt rope to furthermost point of hard material (Rule 8.2.d).
Sail area. 6.3172 sq.m. max.
Battens, 4 off, pockets for which shall be square to the leech measurement line and divide that line into five equal parts (within 51mm of true position) (Rule 8.2.e).
The top two battens shall extend from luff to leech.
The lower two battens may not exceed 610 mm in length.
Sail shall be of loose foot construction.
Sail cloth. Shall be woven polyester sailcloth having a minimum weight of 130 grams per square metre and be white with a red coloured cloth peak as in Rule 8.2(a).
The class insignia to be of red cloth stitched or adhered onto sail as in Rule 8.2(b).
Sail numbers shall be red as in Rule 8.1(c).
Window (Optional). Maximum area 774 square centimetres as in Rule 8.2(g).
The half height point shall be found by folding the head to the clew as in Rule 8.2(f).
The three-quarter girth point shall be found by folding the head to the half height point at the leech.
The half and three-quarter girth measurements shall be taken by swinging an arc from the relevant measurement point on the leech to the nearest point on the luff (including the bolt rope).
A Cunningham eye above the tack cringle is not allowed; the only method of tensioning the luff of the sail shall be by means of a purchase applied to the tack cringle of the sail.
Other insignia, letters or numbers on sails are not allowed except for Club requirements and/or a sail maker’s mark in compliance with ISAF rules.
Our local measurer John Foley may be able to check out boats near the GLYC – call him on 5156 0048.
If the prospective purchase is in Melbourne or nearby give me a call on 9899 7410 and I’ll organise someone to have a look for you.
MRS
Melissa
Your choice of a boat involves consideration of many factors.
Your current options are really quite different boats.
If you intend to go racing, the Sabre would be favoured as it is presently more popular, especially in Victoria and particularly in Gippsland – GLYC at Paynesville has quite a large fleet.
Mirrors have been in decline for many years – in my club in the seventies we had 250 Mirrors on our register and had racing fleets averaging 75 boats – we now have about four in the racks and only one or two racing.
The Sabre will offer much more thrilling sailing than the Mirror but in absolute terms is never-the-less a very stable and easy-to-sail boat.
A Sabre, new or secondhand, will cost a good deal more than a Mirror but resale will be proportionally greater.
Maintenance requirements would be similar for each.
Both are simple and easy to rig.
They weigh about the same – perhaps the Sabre is a little lighter!
Your weight is ideal for the Sabre.
Your age is no barrier – Sabre sailors range from 15 to 90.
Other considerations:
Do you want to take the kids racing?
Do you have a long haul to the water?
Are there facilities near you to learn to sail? Most Clubs have learners programs regularly thru’ the season and a few thru’ the winter as well.
Find someone independent and knowledgable to advise you on your purchase – many Sabres and Mirrors are quite old and can harbour serious weaknesses.Whatever else you do – JOIN A CLUB. It will add significantly to your sailing experiences.
Regards
Mike SimpsonYou could try the approved aluminium version shown in the building notes. It doesnt look attractive but responds better to straightening on the water.
Mike Simpson
I’ll have a go at this!
1. The glass hulls have become popular of late with the YMS from SA being favoured. They seem to have become more competitive but that may be because the hot skippers are getting into them – the upcoming Nats at Safety Beach may settle this question. Certainly there is not much difference between the two types.
2. Skipper weight around 70 to 80 kg seems to be OK but the boat will carry lardarses like me (100kg) but don’t expect to beat the hot, light and fit sailors at championship level.
3. Beware of older glass boats – a few around the 1000 sail number have fallen to bits. There are many quite old boats competing successfully – watch out for Michael Tollhurst in 289 at Safety Beach. It would be worth your while coming down to the Nats and have a look at the boats there – old, new and in between.
4. Maintenance depends on how good your routine care for your boat is – keep running onto or dragging it over gritty beaches and neither type will last long. I would expect to do fairly major maintenance on my Johnson ply hull – repaint etc. – every 3 to 4 years with a bit of touching up of fins and wear spots in between. If you are towing it weekly make sure your trailer is as gentle on the boat as you can. Store it under cover in between uses. Wash it down after racing if you must, but I don’t think this enhances the life of the hull – in fact a bit of salt in the hull may protect it from rot. I did have a Sabre years ago that had aggregated a lot of salt in the klinki ply side deck thru being stored upside down with water in it, and this was a real bitch to dry out and clean up for revarnishing – in the end I reclad the deck.
Mike Simpson
The next nationals are scheduled for Tasmania. No venue has been notified yet but Bellerive has been mentioned.
MRS
If you chase down this thread you will find a few suggestions about how this might be done. Steve Early has some ideas as have others. See how you go.
Damien
Nice to hear the boat is coming up to launch.
The Mackay Multilink trailers and dollies seem to be popular with Sabre people but many build their own others adapt box trailers (be aware that a 6×4 box is too small to drop a Sabre inside and a 7 or 8 foot by 5 foot box is better.)
Box trailers tend to have suspension that is too rough but may be adapted/adjusted.
I believe the Mackay dolly requires improvement to the beds the boat sits on before you should trust your prode & joy to it.
John Dixon at Iecon builds a nice dolly (Alloy, timber and FRP) as do Frecheville Heaney (Mostly timber).
I built my own slide-on dolly from 50mmx50mm aluminium box section and it works well but it cost $500 plus for materials. There are some very clever dollies around, particularly with regard to use of adjustable locations for the wheels to improve balance on the beach.
You’re welcome to come out to Box Hill to look at mine. I think I have the overall dimensions pretty right even if the build quality lacks a bit.
Alternatively come down to Albert Sailing Club about 1300 hrs on a Saturday – most of the Laser, Impulse dollies would adapt for a Sabre. Buster Hooper at Jolly Roger quotes about $2400 for a Mackay trailer and dolly for a Laser (You dont want a regular Laser dolly with the gunwale support system!)
If you know someone who can weld aluminium you’re ahead before you start.
Regards
Mike Simpson (9899 7410)This was extensively reviewed and the rules amended in January last.
You might be able to compare the new rules and measurements which can be found on the national site with those in the building guide you have. There was not a great deal of change.
If you want a new building guide I can supply one for $30.
My address is:
Mike Simpson, Secretary SSAA, 43 Margaret St, Box Hill North, VIC, 3129
